Podcast

Episode #018 – Automating and Systemizing Real Estate with Dan Schwartz, Part 2

As an investor, you’re not just investing: For your REI business to afford you the lifestyle you want, you also need to do everything else that makes a successful business run. And while lead gen, marketing and other things are important, no investor has ever been successful without being able to sell. You could be generating 100 leads a day—if you can’t sell, you stay broke.

But you can’t master sales in a few weeks. Turning strangers into raving fans in a single conversation takes years to learn. But you don’t have to slave away at becoming the world’s best salesperson.

In this episode, Dan Schwartz reveals how he “sells” leads without spending his valuable time on countless phone calls with motivated sellers. You’ll learn how you can do the same and spend your newfound free time as you choose while you let automation do the work.

Show highlights include:

– Do you feel like your marketing dollars vanish into nothing? Here’s how you make your marketing budget go the distance and generate leads and even deals on autopilot. ([4:45])
– What the most successful investors all have in common. ([5:50])
– How to make your follow-up (this is where nearly all deals are closed) return you maximum money in minimum time. ([7:30])
– The best way to qualify leads that doesn’t clog up your personal time. ([11:00])
– Do this after every interaction with a lead and you’ll multiply your value per lead. ([13:20])
– If you’re investing to build a lifestyle, not just a business, here’s how to “80/20” your private life to get more out of your free time. ([27:00])
– How to turn laziness from a weakness into a strength—whether you’re trying to run a business or cut a fast food line. ([28:30])
– To get the latest updates directly from Dan and discuss business with other real estate investors, join the REI marketing nerds

Facebook group here: https://adwordsnerds.com/group
Need help with your online marketing? Jump on a FREE strategy session with our team. We’ll dive deep into your market and help you build a custom strategy for finding motivated seller leads online. Schedule for free here: https://adwordsnerds.com/strategy

 

Read Full Transcript

You're listening to the REI marketing nerds podcast, the leading resource for real estate investors who want to dominate their market online. Dan Barrett is the founder of Ad Words Nerds, a high tech digital agency focusing exclusively on helping real estate investors like you get more leads in deals online. Outsmart your competition and live a freer, more awesome life. And now, your host, Dan Barrett.

Dan: Alright, hello everybody and welcome to this week's episode of the REI Marketing Nerds podcast. As always, Daniel Barrett here from AdWords Nerds. This week we've got a really good one. This week's actually an interview, I know, getting into the whole interview space. We'll definitely be back to our usual format of me talking a bunch of gibberish about marketing at you soon, but this week I could not pass up the opportunity to interview Dan Schwartz. If you don't know Dan Schwartz, he is the CEO and kind of mastermind behind Investorfuse, which is a really incredible program, kind of manages the relationship between your seller leads and you, and can do all kinds of really amazing things, automate lots of processes, do all sorts of wild marketing things, it's a really, really cool tool. So I get into this whole process with Dan, how he started in investing, doing wholesaling. We talk about what brought Investorfuse into the world, how he decided that was going to be the thing that he wanted to focus his time on, we talk about what's new with Investorfuse 2.0, what that is, what's going on. We also talk about a lot of real universal things, like Dan's phrase, we are in the age of systems in investing and what that means and how you can use that in order to improve your own business. We talk about how you can make more money and get more deals from the exact same amount of leads just by automating a lot of your follow up, and we talk about some of the follow up tactics that the best investors in the world are using right now. This is a value packed, amazing interview.

And by the way, just outside of that, Dan is a fascinating guy, a really, really interesting guy. One of those people that's incredible at analyzing his own life, figuring out where the highest points of impact are going to be, and optimizing everything he does around that. He's one of my favorite people in the real estate investing community, and I can't wait for you to hear this interview, so check it out and I will be back at the end of the episode here.

So without any further ado, here's my interview with Dan Schwartz from Investorfuse.

Dan: Alright everybody, Dan Barrett here and I am here with Daniel Schwartz. So let me ask you. So one of the biggest things that I've noticed working with hundreds of investor at this point is that the difference in success levels between investors that have it very consistent and systematic follow up process and investors who mostly handle it as it comes, it's just night and day. Right? Like I can give someone, I can give two investors the exact same leads at the exact same time, and one investor will turn that into deals all day, and one investor will just really struggle. What I typically hear from people is that if they're struggling, they're having trouble getting the leads on the phone, they're having trouble getting a response. I'm always like, "What does your follow up system look like? How often are you reaching out? How many channels are you reaching out on? What does every channel look like? What's your system? What's your numbers?" And usually people are struggling, they don't know that because they don't have a system, and so they can't manage that system. So follow up's like a huge area of inquiry for me, it's something that I'm not great at, because it's not, I'm not an investor, I've never had to do that. But you guys are kind of like you're in this really amazing spot where you can look at in a systematic way like what works for investors in this position, what actually changes the outcome when you slot it into the system. So for you guys, specifically on follow up, what are some tips or points you would give investors to, this kind of whole 80/20 idea of what are the things that can change are going to have the highest leverage for that in terms of turning their marketing spend into deals.

Dan S: Love it. So we have a book that we wrote about this.

Dan: You have a downloadable for literally everything, which I love.

Dan S: Yes.

Dan: Okay. So what is this? In this case this one or no?

Dan S: It's the main call to action at our website investorfuse.com, Ten Commandments of Real Estate Lead
Management. I can give you just a teaser, it's a really well written book that our whole team kind of pitched in on, mainly Allan. After working with 500+ companies, really at this point thousands of companies, because before that I was doing Podio, you start to notice the commonalities between the most successful people. We kind of distilled that into 10 commonalities and put that in a book. So first thing is you need to understand that your income literally comes from following up. I would argue that all of your income, like even the person who wants to sell right now, as soon as you get them on the phone requires a degree of follow up in order to transact. So without a process in place for leads and seller leads or buyers leads coming in at scale, like high volume amounts of leads, without a process in place, you're losing money every day. I think it's important for owners to realize the importance of follow up and not to treat it like something that you can just put on a spreadsheet and you'll figure it out. I was in that point because you don't really care about systems, you just want to make money, and I totally get that, I hear you on that. However, you're going to make money and then right after that you're going to realize how important it is to actually if you want to scale this and make this predictable so you're not broke the second you close a deal, you need to automate this whole follow up process with house leads, because nobody wants to sell right away typically. It's multi-month/year process that you can't use spreadsheets, you fully automate. That's just the first thing, is understand the importance of follow up. So the things that you should do to really hone in your follow up systems is one, to make sure that you outsource your lead qualification. The most important thing you could be doing is having someone else take in all of your calls and do that initial qualification to determine, one, if there's a house that's actually easy to get sold, what the motivation level is and the basic data that's required to get back to them. You don't want to be doing all of that ever. Ask me how I know. You burn out really quickly and you just don't do a good job. So automating your lead qualification or outsourcing is the biggest part of this whole process, that's the one first part of the funnel that gets broken the most, and when you use a dedicated person or company, then you're going to make sure that every single call is getting answered, that's another important thing, is like answer your phone, make sure these people that are responding to your marketing messages you're actually getting a hold of them. Also, when someone submits a lead on line you respond within the first five minutes. I wonder if that truth is actually less than five minutes, the five minute thing is like what is the rule that's been thrown around a lot because of the study that was done a couple years ago. But if you get back to your lead within 5 minutes, your chances of closing that deal go up by like 90%.

Dan: Yes. I've seen this in practice so many times. You and I are both big Harry Marshal fans.

Dan S: Oh yeah. I just ordered a shirt; I ordered a 80/20 shirt.

Dan: Really?

Dan S: Yeah.

Dan: It's like 20% of a shirt covers 80% of your body.

Dan S: It's just a big fractal.

Dan: He is a really interesting dude, and so I saw him recently, I went to like a seminar he did in Connecticut, he was talking about, not about real estate but he was talking about like the time value of leads and how the time value leads is a 80/20 curve, so it's like the moment the lead opts in, that lead is at a 100% value. It's like 2 minutes from then it's not at like 90% value, it's at like 50% value. Then like 30 minutes for minutes at like 1% of the value of the lead. And you just realize it's like I've talked to so many people who are like, "Well Dan, you know, whatever, I like you, but these leads aren't any good." I'm like wow, like I'm really just terrible, like I get very personally upset because people pay me money to get a certain result and I always want to like do a post-mortem on every client to figure out, if it didn't go well like I want to know why I didn't go well I want to get better. Ad so many times I've got, they're like, "These leads aren't any good." I'm like, "Ohh my God, so what do they say when you follow up?" And they're like, "Well what I followed up a day later..." and I'm like, yeah, like the value of the lead is essentially 0, it's not 0 because you can get that person long term, but you are losing a huge amount of value in that, like you said, five minutes before you follow up. When you are working with clients, is the best thing to do to just hire person, put him in your office, put him on the phone. Do you guys do that online but as part of like a form? What's the best way to qualify leads?

Dan S: The best way to qualify leads is there's a lot of services out there that do like investor friendly lead answering. Because of how important this is there are companies that are popping up that just do this for you, so if you don't hire an in-house office manager to do that, then you can use a company like Call Porter to do that for you and put the data into your CRM on your behalf. That's one of those things that that's totally worth the money, because it'll allow you to focus on, you know like I said, building engines and prioritizing those motivated leads or for all of the leads coming in. So using call answering services, I recommend not using Pat Live because there are general answering service. You want to use real estate friendly answering services. Call Porter, I think 2019 is going to be a big year for them. I was going to create that service if no company showed up, but they showed up. That's how important I think it is. Another important thing is the frequency at which you follow up. This stuff is so boring, but it's just so essential, so the stat is always follow up at least seven times, your reps have 95% chance of making contact within seven touch points. That sounds great, but if you don't use a system to automatically remind you to do that or have a system that automatically does that for you, you're just not going to do it, you're not going to do it. Or you're going to outsource it and that person's going to fail. Because there is so much getting thrown at you and every seller lead has a different scenario.
Dan: I think that's so huge because I think so many people think, well this person filled out my form or whatever they did, and I called them and I left a message and they didn't call me back, so they're not motivated. That's like the jump, is like they're not motivated, they're not a seller. I'm like my mom leaves me voice mails and I don't call her back and I love my mom, you know what I mean? The onus is on you as the investor to do that follow up, and I think that it's so huge when people don't think about it that way.

Dan S: Yeah. And then just from a systems and process standpoint, another big thing is to always have a next action. So every time you're done corresponding with an opportunity, assign a next action to occur and make sure you use a system like Investorfuse that forces you to choose a next action so that you don't forget about that lead.

Dan: Break that down a little bit, what do you mean by that?

Dan S: When you're done with a conversation, are you going on an appointment, are you scheduling a reminder to follow up in the future, are you going to create the offer right then there, are going to signs someone else to create the offer right then and there? If you don't actually program in that action step, then it's just to slither through the cracks, like every other lead. And this is again, this is something that I learned the hard way. So what we did, and sort of my whole product mission with even when we were doing this on Podio is to force people to choose the next action, and it was hard to do that Podio because there's workarounds where you can avoid that. With the new system, which we are coming out with now, it forces you to choose a next action and take one action at a time so that you really can't mess up or lose track of leads. It's crucial.

Dan: I mean that's huge man, because with AdWords Nerds, like obviously we're not investors, but we use back end systems to manage our own clients and it's very easy to, if you don't set that next step, someone's kind of in the system, but at that point they're kind of invisible. You need some kind of process for making sure those people don't get lost, I think that's completely huge. So you mentioned this, so talk about... So you guys made the decision because of, I'm assuming some of the limitations of Podio, to essentially build your own thing. Talk about that a little bit, like why did you make that decision and then what did you guys end up turning Investorfuse into.
Dan S: So Podio, the system is actually designed for project management. You can think of, if you're familiar with Trello, is a project management tool that mainly agencies use, marketing agencies, development agencies. And for many years investors took that and worked it into a lead management system. So there's always been that underlying this doesn't really quite fit but we're going to deal with it because there's nothing else. It wasn't ever designed for real estate investors, we just made it so. That really started to, we start to feel that because everybody would complain about how complex it is, despite us trying to make it a simple as possible. We couldn't control the system, you know, it's not our platform. So in order to scale the solution properly, we decided that we've got to make our own thing. We need to use what we learned building Podio, think of it as a prototype, to create a thing that people actually needed, which is a simple process that they can trust. Not to mention all of the outages that would occur on Podio. Every week at this point Podio's API just turns off. So leads stop coming into the people, our customers' workspace. Leads just stop coming in because of Podio's outages. Really, really bad and completely out of our control.

Dan: And then people, I'm sure, would come to you and say, "What's up, Investorfuse, what did you guys do?" And
you're just kind of like...

Dan S: Public shaming occurred a lot.

Dan: I'm sure.

Dan S: So we decided basically, listen we are just going to reinvest everything into building the thing that we should have probably built from day one, but we didn't know that this was going to be the path that we're going to go on. Fate would have it that where we're going to just build our own system, and it started with like at 2 AM I woke up out of bed with this vision of creating like a one page action based system that doesn't look or feel anything like a CRM. We're not even going to call it a CRM actually, we're going to invent a new word.

Dan: Do you know what the word is?

Dan S: We're toying with a couple ones, DLM is one of them, Digital Lead Manager, because it functions more as like a bot, like an assistant that tells you what to do conversationally, versus like a database that you have to log into and you have to figure out like what do I click, like, "Okay, I have to go to seller leads, I guess I should go over here. But wait, I got to go into the settings and adjust this." There's none of that thinking involved and we really put a lot of time and energy into figuring out an interface that would allow for that level of simplification. And that's what we've built, and right now it's in beta, and it's so slick that every time I watch a demo it gets better every single week, I'm just blown away that we were able to pull this off in a year. Granted, we spent everything we got to make it happen, we had to raise some money in the process, but it is a worthwhile effort that I think is going to benefit the entire industry. Really it's going to turn Investorfuse into the go-to hub for all incoming leads. So finally lead generating services like you guys will have like a system that they can trust, their clients are going to make money from the leads you're generating. Which is the biggest complaint that you guys have, just like you're in control of generating the lead, but you have no control over what they do with it after that. That's the piece that we're honing in on to the automate and simplify as much as possible. And another great benefit of having it so simple and having it so that you really can't mess it up, it tells you what to do step by step, is that the data you get is going to be super accurate. You're going to know what campaign it came from, you're going to have the lead response data, you're going to know how fast people got back to them, you're going to who on your team has the most results, you're going to know how many appointments are scheduled from that, what the ratio of appointments to close deals was, you're going to have all these operational metrics that are going to be completely accurate as long as your teams hearts are still beating and still showing up to work. So I'm pumped to be able to do like another study, or we can release like new metrics around like, it takes an average of 11 attempts in order for you to get a deal, not this Harvard Business Review study, so I want to talk about like how we can like merge our data together if we're having this conversation to create like new industry standards.

Dan: I think there is a huge opportunity to actually look at that stuff at scale. One of the things I was say, like it's very hard to find large companies that deal with the number of data points that we have, there are a few, but mostly it's like there are individuals, and individuals often don't really share their data with the community, because they've got their own thing, I don't expect anyone to share their secret sauce with everyone else, and then two, just the fact that it works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone. Right? People in different housing markets, you know, whatever. You got somebody with supernatural level of charisma like us, you know, who knows this is unreal, and that skews numbers. But it's like when you start to look at lots of people over time, that's when you start to see those trends. Yeah, I just want to use that as much as possible and do cool stuff with that.
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Dan: The thing that's so interesting to me about what you guys are doing, and I think the thing that makes you really unique in that space is you are trying to simplify it down. Like I think the way that most companies think about CRMs or back end systems or whatever, it's like just throw more stuff at it. Like we used a CRM for our agency and I kind of hate it, and it's like just it's like everything. It's like they want to do everything, there's everything in there, it does everything, and in reality because you know who your clients are. you can make just the stuff that matters and put it right up from so they don't have to worry about, you know, just like you said, like handcrafting Podio into some shape it was never meant to be in. It can just be simple from the beginning. I think that's much harder to do than people think it is.

Dan S: Totally. How's the podcast going?

Dan: It's been interesting man, it's been good. I like doing, it's not got a huge listenership, but one of the things that I've noticed just to kind of know pull back the curtains, like if anyone's ever curious about like what marketing AdWords Nerds is like, the thing that we really notice is like people who listen to a podcast, they close at like 2-3 times the percentage of everyone else. When you get to a certain point in the investing space, it's very hard to just keep spending more money on ads. We kind of spend all we can really spend and still have decent targeting, and for me it's more about going deeper with the REI Marketing Nerds Facebook group or doing a podcast. It's just like you said, like it's essentially a form of following up with people, just staying in touch with them, continuously providing value and like now when people come to us it's no longer like I show you an ad and we try to get you on the phone and then I have to convince you to hire us. People now, like when people get on the phone, they've been like, "I've been in your group for a year, I've been listening to your podcast, I've been saving up money to hire you." Okay, that's like a much better situation for us to be in. We really try not to ever convince anybody. It's like you're either right to work with us and it's awesome or it isn't. I think it's been really good that way. But I think if you look at it traditionally, like you know, I don't have like the top podcast in the world, but I like you doing it, so it's enough and the effect has definitely been positive, for sure.

Dan S: Yeah, it's just a great platform to hash your ideas out out loud that you wouldn't otherwise have that ability to. And then the feedback you get is relatively real time, so that's... We just launched a podcast too, it's been fun having that platform.

Dan: Yeah, it's interesting, man. I dig it, and I just like talking. I mean I like writing, but like I just, I find it much easier to do this than I do like write like long form copy. It's much more interesting.

Dan S: It's a good $10,000 per hour zone.

Dan: Yeah, we'll see. I don't know if I'm at 10K per hour now yet, my quality is going to be higher than that. But it's been interesting. I had someone who's like a client, like be like, "I listened to your podcast and I totally disagree with you, like XYZ." We got into like a deep conversation about it. I was like, "That's awesome." I wouldn't have had that conversation or wouldn't have known that guy's thoughts, so it just, it allows me to talk to a lot of people and scale, which is what it's always about.

Dan S: Hey, I just need to say a real quick inspirational thing. We're sitting here talking about how the power of 80/20 can make you $10,000 Jeff Bezos in 2018 has made on average $231,000 per minute. Per minute.

Dan: So if you guys want to start a big Go Fund Me to help Jeff Bezos pay his bills, the address is... Yeah, it's ridiculous, man. It's completely ridiculous. I want to know. I won't keep you forever, because I know you're busy, you've got stuff to do. But I want to know, we're both big fans of this whole 80/20 thing, you and I would geek out a lot about lifestyle design and trying to really handcraft our lives. I think you're a really good example that actually Joe McCall, Joe McCall is a great example that was... Because I've been working with Joe McCall and I was like, I was working harder than he was, he's was like in Europe with his family just doing whatever and he busted my butt on his AdWords campaigns, and it's he had systems. I want to know like how have you thought through that whole kind of 80/20 lifestyle design thing, how do you think through that in your personal life? Like how do you use that outside of your business to kind of drive how you spend the rest your time? Or even make your long term business decisions, I guess.

Dan S: Yeah. So I subconsciously make second decisions based around the essence of the 80/20 principle, just subconsciously. Examples of this, I think this is my like unique skill set or whatever, I can't really quite describe how I'm able to do this but I'm able to just see the matrix a little bit. So just simple stuff like we are in line on a team retreat and we were in line, we went to this event at a stadium and there's a line at Chick-fil-A to get lunch. Like was wrapping all the way around the stadium pretty much and inside of the stadium. I was just like, "There's a 100% chance that I'm not going to wait in this line." and the first thing I thought was like I'll just go on Postmates and order Chick-fil-A on Postmates and they'll deliver it directly to me, I bypass this whole line. Why isn't anyone else doing this? I did that, and 15 minutes later, a Chick-fil-A guy came with a bag of Chick-fil-A, and I remember getting that and I'm just looking everybody in line and I'm just like, "What makes me able to see that solution that they can't?" So just like, I don't have like a routine really in my life or structures necessarily, I just am able to make those decisions, I'm really good at it because of how lazy I am figuring out solutions and high level strategies that, or high level ways to execute things that require minimum time or effort to create maximum output. Even in high school I was like that. I got great grades with the least amount of work possible.

Dan: But I learned nothing is what I want to say.

Dan S: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

Dan: Well so I'm curious. Do you have a really clear... So I know you said like you don't have a lot of structure in your life, which is interesting to me because I don't... I tend to try to build structure into my life and then I just don't do it and then I feel guilty about it. I'm curious, like do you have a real clear sense of... Like if I was going to say to you, "Dan, what are your priorities in life?", do you have a clear sense of like, "Okay, here's how things rank to me and I'm going to prioritize things that are most important over things aren't." Is that kind of like the guiding principle you use to make those decisions?

Dan S: Actually no. It is more so now than it used to be. I just turned 30, spent most of my 20's touring and travelling and I'm sort of still doing that in a sense. For the past 3 months I've been staying at Air BnB's and hotels and family and friends' places. So it's been a very unstructured lifestyle, yet I'm still able to operate at a pretty high level every day. I know that is my biggest weakness right now, is not having a routine. In fact, they say that having a routine and having structure is the key to freedom, not the antithesis of it. So I'm leaping into that actually. So I just moved to Austin, staying at an Air BnB right now, but I'm looking at a place and really I want to experiment with structure and routine so that I can have more flow and creativity on a day to day basis. We were just talking right before this, I really want to structure my life around flow and creating music because I want to see how that will affect my thinking and how that will impact the business. So I don't recommend an unstructured lifestyle, it's just kind of how it worked out for me. Also it makes dating really hard, I'm single. So when you're bouncing around and not saying in any place for longer than five days, I basically just haven't been dating because of that. It's just like I don't want to have to go through all this, I'm leaving in five days. It sort of created all these limiting beliefs. I think routine is important, and I'm going to test that out and I'll get back to you.

Dan: Yeah. I'll tell you what. You can always just have kids, and then it ruins all the other stuff for you.

Dan S: It's forcing function for a structure.

Dan: "I adopted three kids, I'm just going to see how it goes. I don't know, I'll get rid of them if I don't like it."

Dan S: Maybe I should get a dog or something.

Dan: That's a nice limitation to have, because you can get over it if you need to, but it's a being that relies on you, so yeah, it'll be interesting man. I think we're both... We both have a lot of personality traits that are pretty similar, and it's a real fine balance, because like I need routine in my life, but I also rebel against it if you give me too much. It's kind of like structure but not too structured, so it'll be interesting. You're obviously a very thoughtful guy. What's something you've read or someone you listen to or have gotten into lately that's had kind of an impact on you? Because I've kind of seen you, you're a little bit of the evolution to the way you kind of figure this stuff over time and you've made a lot of experimentation, made a lot of changes. So what's something recently for you that's had an impact on you, positive, negative or whatever?

Dan S: What I'm tinkering with the most in my brain right now is the concept of OKRs, objectives and key results. I just started reading the book Measure What Matters, it just got released this year, and I like it better than KPI's, which is Key Performance Indicators. It's just more simple and intuitive and it's basically for those who aren't familiar, it's the goal setting strategy that companies like Google employ to rally the entire team around key objectives, and then the result, the key results that, like the what, the direction you're going and then how you're going to go there, and the way you structure it is very intuitive in that everybody working on a project know exactly how their work impacts the overall company objectives. You can see it statistically if you use software like Weekdone, which I'm looking into now, so you know, now that I have a real software company and we have our own standalone system, I am leaning into really diving in and creating a team that is way more aligned around these objectives and key results. Because not having that is a big cause for tension and disorganization and lack of productivity. You kind of find that out the hard way, so I would recommend everybody read this book Measure What Matters, even if you're just starting out. It's good to learn these high level things so that you can sort of bake that in from day one without having to go through the mistakes that Dan and I made. Read Measure What Matters. OKRs, I think, are the new KPIs.

Dan: Yeah, it's great. I'm so glad you said that, man. Because we literally, January we rolled out OKRs to our team, which was really fascinating. I read the same book and really loved it. I've been messing around with them for just my personal life.

Dan S: I should do that.

Dan: Yeah, it's interesting. I like it a lot. I think it works best with teams. I mean I think for me personally, like I had like an OKR board for all stuff I was working on anyways. Again, it was like a little too much structure. So I took pieces of it that I kept, but for the team I think it's incredible because it's just like you said, there's a clear goal that everyone can pull towards, and for me, the biggest thing was being able, even for me, like not even for the team, but for me, I have so many ideas to be able to be like which of these affects my objective. Because otherwise I'd be like, "I'd do this, I'd do this, I'd do this." They're all kind of spread out and it's like, it forces you to focus on stuff that has the impact that you want. Yeah, let me know man, I'm very curious how goes for you guys. I'm very interested. We just grew, we're a team of nine now and it's like, you know, I know you know this was like you start to manage a team, it's beyond like four people and it's like all of a sudden like it's a very different experience, like working with all those different people and keeping everyone on the same task. It can be challenging, but I don't think it has to be complicated. I think it can be pretty simple.

Dan S: Yeah. I mean you got to try to keep it as simple as possible. My coach said that up to like 25 employees is the hardest it ever gets to run a company, and after that, like once you get to 50 actually life gets a lot easier because you're just working with managers, ideally you're hiring A players that just run the show for you. And on that note, a little final thought, I know a lot of people listening to this may be newer to the business, and this high level talk about systemizing your business and outsourcing might seem like good in theory, but there might be some limiting beliefs around your lack of ability to do this. Not only... I mean I got to say, like if I can do it you can do it, but really you need to understand that when you're creating a system, like a business system and putting someone else into it, your value is the fact that you made that happen. So a lot of people think that they don't have value if they just like, for instance, Joe McCall will do this thing where he learns a new strategy, so then he hires someone to learn that strategy and just do it for him. And some might argue like well how can he do that, like he's not doing anything, what's the value? The value is that he understands the market need, he understand that the system is needed and he acquired the resources in which to learn and execute the system, and then he provided that opportunity to someone for them to actually have meaning and work on something that matters for them. That in itself is valuable, and I think it's a psychological shift you have to go through when you are working on your business versus in it. Your value is providing the system and finding a market and dollars and acquiring the knowledge and know how. That is your highest value, and I think you shouldn't have any timidness around outsourcing or hiring or plugging people into these systems, because you do have value. You're smart enough to know that that's actually the most important thing, is being the owner of the system and bringing all the pieces together. So don't feel bad if you're starting out, they want to start outsourcing everything right away, I think that's great. Like leading people is the most important skill set you can have, you just have to jump in and do it. So hire that first person and lead, work the system and you'll find out how step by step it's possible to systemize and automate most of your business.

Dan: That's an amazing way to end that. So if people want to follow you online, they want to learn more about Investorfise, like how should they find you, how should they reach out to you?

Dan S: Investorfuse.com has a wealth of knowledge about all the stuff that we've been talking about, as well as some real estate strategy on the blog. As well as that Ten Commandments blog post that I told you about, the e-book about the Ten Commandments of Lead Management. If you want to reach to me personally,
Dan@Investorfuse.com and just let me know what questions you have or how I can help serve you and I'll get back to you, or we can book a call and talk from there.

Dan: Cool, man. If you guys are listening to this, you're an investor, I highly recommend that you check out Investorfuse, it's a really incredible piece of work, and there is a... We haven't even scratched a surface of all the weird stuff that it does, I mean at this post I think it can come to your house and like massage your shoulders if you feel stressed out.

Dan S: It's not out yet though, so it's still in beta. We're going to roll out the system publicly in quarter one of 2019.

Dan: Alright. It's coming out man, I'm so excited for that. If someone wants to get in on the beta, should they just go and like drop their email somewhere? Are you going to notify people?

Dan S: Shoot us an email, it might take a couple weeks to get you in, but if desperately want to get in, shoot us an email and we'll see what we can do.

Dan: Alright. So if you guys are listening to this and you're curious, which I recommend that you be curious, drop them an email, let them know. Dan, thank you so much for man, it was an absolute pleasure to have you, and you're in my opinion one of the most fascinating people in real estate today, so I really appreciate you coming on and being my silent partner on this Facebook Live apparently.

Dan S: Yeah, sorry about that.

Dan: People on the podcast will definitely hear you, and you don't have to apologize because it's definitely my fault, not yours. Yeah man, thank you so much, I really appreciate it.

Dan S: Hey, I want to come want to do one of those day drinking lives with you.

Dan: It's at 2 PM, so it's 15 minutes from now. If I don't have a beer today, I'm going to try to like... That's like my New Year's resolution is bring a beer on my weekly show because I used to do that every week and then I got to the point where I was like I can't drink like even like a fifth of a beer in the middle of the day, I just lose it. You know what I mean? It's not good for me. We'll see, I'll work much harder on that for you.

Dan S: Awesome.

Dan: Alright man, have a great rest of your day; I'll talk to you soon.

Dan S: See you.

Dan: Cheers, buddy.

Alright, REI Marketing Nerds, I hope you got a ton of value out of that interview with Dan Schwartz. Man, I had such a good time talking that dude and I learn so much every time we chat. As always guys, thank you so much for listening this episode. I would love it if you got some value out of this episode if you go on iTunes or Stitcher, wherever you get your podcast, just give us a like, give us a subscribe, leave us a review that helps other people find the podcast and I really appreciate it. And as always, you can find me at the REI Marketing Nerds Facebook group. You can go to AdWordsNerds.com/group, it will take you right there, AdWordsNerds.com/group. There's a whole bunch of people on Facebook talking about marketing, real estate investing, just really, really good group of people. And you can find show notes for this episode, links to everything that we talked about, all that good stuff, plus all our past episodes at AdWordsNerds.com/podcast. I hope you are having an awesome week and I will be talking to you again soon and thank you, cheers.

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