Episode #212 – Mastering Foreclosures and Pre-Foreclosures with Marty Boardman, Part 1

You're listening to the REI marketing nerds podcast, the leading resource for real estate investors who want to dominate their market online. Dan Barrett is the founder of AdWords nerds, a high tech digital agency focusing exclusively on helping real estate investors like you get more leads and deals online, outsmart your competition and live a freer, more awesome life. And now, your host, Dan Barrett.

(0:41) Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the REI marketing nerds podcast. As always, this is Daniel Barrett here from AdWords nerds.com. And look, if you need more motivated seller leads for your real estate investing business. You know where to go. It's AdWords nerds.com. This week? Oh, I've got a great conversation with Marty Boardman coming up. Now if you don't know, Marty, he has written a book called foreclosure secrets, you can get it for free over at foreclosure secrets.net. And I'll be honest, right when I don't know something I'm pretty open about that I really did not understand foreclosures, or pre foreclosures, or how those operate as an acquisition channel for leads. So Marty was able to really break it down for me in a way that I think was extremely insightful and impactful. And we were able to really get in the weeds on parts of the process that give Marty a competitive advantage when he's going after these types of deals. And by the way, he should know he has been doing this for about 20 years now, tons of experience, tons of experience teaching people how to do this. He's a really great guide into the world of foreclosures and pre foreclosure. So without any further ado, let's get into my conversation with Marty Boardman from foreclosure secrets dotnet. All right, what's up everybody? This is Daniel Barrett from AdWords nerds. And I am here with Marty Boardman from foreclosure secrets dot nets. And I got there right right foreclosure secrets.net. For whatever reason, the minute I started saying it in my head, I was like, that's the wrong thing. But that is the right thing. Correct?

(2:20) I'd say you got Alright, cool. So first of all, if you're listening to this, you should go there foreclosure secrets is Marty's book, you can sign up now. What is the deal with the book? If they go there? They can get a free copy of it. Is that what you're doing? Yeah, I mean, it's it's free. I just ask that they pay 995 for the shipping of the book. And I usually get it in two to three days. Yeah. Or if you want to pay more, you can go to Amazon and buy it for 20 bucks. So well. Yeah. Look, if you guys, if you are out there feeling like look, Jeff Bezos doesn't have enough money and he needs more money. Although I guess that is not the CEO anymore. So maybe maybe that's that, that joke Bad joke is off label. But let's talk about you and what you're doing. Now you have this really interesting approach. And I want to talk about foreclosure specifically. And then there's a big part of what you do in cars specifically is a big part of your strategy in our current markets or want to get there but for people who maybe don't know you or don't know your story, tell people how you got started in real estate investing in what your business looks like today.

(3:23) Sure. So actually, this is my 20th year of being a full time real estate investor. So wow, congrats, which is my full time in real estate. Yeah, yeah, I actually left my nine to five it really wasn't a nine to five job. I was a TV news cameraman. At the CBS affiliates. Phoenix, Arizona. Yeah. And I quit that job in September of 2002. So September of this year was 20 years of being a full time real estate investor having an investment company and yeah, it's it's crazy how fast the time has gone by I've actually been in real estate longer than I wasn't television news. I worked in TV news, about 16 years when I when I walked away in 2002. So yeah, I was a TV news cameraman just like, you know, the guys you see in your local market. The guy schlepping around the 100 pounds of camera gear and you know, being out in the rain and the heat covering car crashes and and, you know, thunderstorms, that kind of stuff. I got people I told people and I Finally Quit I got sick at Chase and ambulances and raindrops. So I got on a TV about 20 years ago and I was sick of working nights, weekends and holidays. Yeah. And I really was just wanting to get into some kind of corporate business setting because business always interested me. I just had a really hard time all I knew how to do was you know pick up a camera and pointed at things and record videos. So it was really difficult for me I didn't have a very good resume, trying to get any kind of corporate job. I I'm in the Phoenix area. So we have big companies here, you know, like Intel and at Motorola and some big players, but I couldn't get on with any of those companies. So right around the same time I read like a lot of real estate investors do. I read the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki and just fell in love the idea of owning my own business, getting into real estate, buying cash flow, producing assets, and having that kind of be my, you know, annuity that I could live on someday. So that's what I did. I read that book, and I did what a lot of new or aspiring real estate investors do. I attended a weekend boot camp on is actually in Denver, Colorado. It was it was a weekend seminar. So they had like, four or five speakers on Saturday, four or five on Sunday. And it was one of those deals where they get done after their hour and a half pitch, basically. And then people go running to the back of the room with their credit cards and buy their their course. Right. So yeah, that weekend, I bought two courses, I bought one on lease options, sandwich lease options, and I bought another one on foreclosures. And because those seem to be, in my mind, the best types of strategies for someone like myself, who was inexperienced didn't have a lot of money. And so yeah, that's kind of how it started. I came back to Phoenix and implemented the lease option strategy. And I actually made a few bucks enough money that my wife said, sure you can quit your job, which I think I was making like 60 grand a year with overtime. Because I convinced her I'm like, listen, I can make at least this much money in real estate, and then not have the demanding hours and the crazy, you know, whether it have to work in in schedule, so she let me quit. So I did the lease option, sandwich lease option strategy, did a handful of deals made enough money, like I said, to allow her to give me the the permission to quit my job. But this is a really hard strategy to maintain to scale because I just a difficult conversation to have. I don't want to go into the mechanics of sandwich lease options, but there's a lot of moving parts. Okay. So I shifted my my focus to foreclosures, because the other course I bought was on foreclosures. And then kind of the rest is history. That's really been my primary buying or acquisition strategy. Since since 2003, I initially was buying pre foreclosures and wholesaling them. And then eventually I was buying pre foreclosures and doing fix and flips and buying holds or acquired a pretty massive real estate portfolio when the housing market crashed. In 2007 2008, I had well before a crash, I had about a $16 million real estate portfolio, but 8 million in equity on paper. And in like a matter of six months, I went from that to negative 2 million net worse, because then the housing market crashed. I own all these real estate assets. And they were all both, you know, underwater, and on top of that negative cash flowing because they were all on Adjustable Rate arms and all this crap. So in 2009, I started rebuilding. And at that point, I shifted my focus away from pre foreclosures because everybody was underwater. So it's hard to make a deal with somebody who's in foreclosure. If they owe $200,000 on a house that's only worth 125. So what I did is I shift my focus to buying foreclosures at auctions, Trustee Sale, Sheriff sales, that kind of thing. And did that. I've been doing that pretty much ever since. And then over the last four or five years now that people have equity again, kind of went back to the Pre Foreclosure space. So now I'm buying both. I'm buying pre foreclosures, and I'm buying houses at trustee sales, depending on I do this in Arizona and Wisconsin. So it's trustee sales in Arizona Sheriff sales in Wisconsin.

(8:40) Okay, so there's like a bunch of things I want to ask about, because I think you touched a lot on a lot of really interesting things. Before we get too far away from this, because I want to start digging into foreclosures, I want to go all the way back to your time as a cameraman, which is maybe a little bit weird, but I'm very curious about this, like, you spent a lot of time engaged in the creation of media, right? Which is not very calm, right. It's like we're all used to consuming media in some way we're most of us aren't really involved in making it at least at that level was or professional level. Right? I'm curious, like, when you look back on that time period, and again, what you're, you're behind the camera, right? You're not You're not the one at the desk, but you're behind the camera, you're sort of watching that stuff gets get put together. Were there any like sort of lessons or big takeaways that you took from that time into what you do now? Whether it's like, how you communicate with people or even understanding how media communicates with you, if that makes sense. Do you feel like you view the world in a different way than people who haven't had that

(9:45) experience? Absolutely. It is 100% prepared me for a career in real estate investing especially early on because you know, if you're dealing directly with distressed sellers, you know, whether they're in foreclosure or they're just in a situation where they have to sell for some reason like job loss, medical issues, divorce, you have to be a really good listener, you have to be able to get to not just be the guy that's or the gal that's just trying to make a deal and close the deal and make and make money. I mean, obviously, that's, that's what you're want the end result to be. But you got to build rapport with someone. And, you know, I can't tell you how many interviews I did over the years, where I had to talk to people who were in the very worst point of time in their life. I covered the Columbine shootings in Colorado, I was there for a week, the TV station I worked for, and Phoenix flew me. As soon as it happened. They flew me straight to Denver, and my the reporter and I went down to Littleton and we spent an entire week there, right outside the school for high school and at a park nearby where they they kind of had his makeshift memorial. So it was every day, I went to one of the one of the girls who was killed in the Columbine Massacre, her parents had just moved there from Mesa, Arizona, which is you know, suburb of Phoenix, but they knew of my TV station, they knew my reporter, they watched her on TV. So we had some report already, even though we didn't know it, because we'd never met her. But they invited us to come to her funeral, they allowed us, let us come inside the funeral home and record, the services inside were the only station that was allowed to do that. And it was a lot of the was because of the reporter that I work with. But we're able to build rapport and make them feel comfortable with us. So you know, when you're dealing with sellers, and they're in a stressful situation, and you have that ability to listen, to kind of calm them down and explain what their options are that that can be, obviously very helpful. So yeah, I mean, there was a number of things. The other big thing, and was I got to learn how to deal with a lot of different types of people, different backgrounds, different story. So you can relate to people in certain ways. So I could say to somebody, I'm very sorry to hear that, you know, prior to getting into real estate, I was in television news, and I met a family who lost a family member in a car accident or, or in a shooting or whatever the case may be. So there's quite a few skills I learned. That came in handy. Of course, now, you fast forward really to the last five, six years, then, of course, you have to be good on camera, you have to be comfortable around cameras, you have to be able to know how to create content, interesting content that makes people think, and people can learn and you have to do in a short period of time, all the stories that I recorded and edited shot, you know, video, and I would edit them as well. We're all you know, under a minute and a half. So you had to get a message a concise message across to people in a very short period of time. And of course, that's what we're dealing with now, right with YouTube shorts and Instagram reels, Facebook reels, everything has to be a minute or less or no one even sees it.

(13:01) Yeah, it's like almost very slick TV news story see law, right at that point. And okay, so there's a bunch of jumping off points, I want to stay for a moment with emotions, right? If you're telling that story of, you know, you know, reporting on Columbine and sort of getting permission to have access to these incredibly emotional moments, right. And like you said, you both need to establish rapport with people, which which I can imagine involves having empathy for them. Right. But at the same time, you also have a job to do. Right, you also got to hold the kid, right? You can't get wrapped up in the moment. Right, you have to be there. But a little bit of part in one of the questions that I had about foreclosure specifically. And one of the things that you mentioned when we first met is that one of the things that's really critical to understand about working with foreclosures, as opposed to other parts of real estate is there's often this like, very deep, emotional undercurrent to what is happening, right, like, I and I forget, I haven't ever done this or this or this kind of one, I'm imagining that you are often going into a situation that is emotionally loaded in one way or another. So how do you think about that, right? How do you think about, okay, you're there to do a deal, you're there to, you know, have a commercial transaction at the same time. I imagine that if you just go in and you're all business, and you're left with the three piece suit and the three piece suit and the wingtips and you're just like sign there and it's, you're very brushed, you're not going to do a particularly good job, right. So how do you strike that balance? How do you think about navigating the sort of promotional nature of you know, buying foreclosures or am I completely overthinking it? It's not like that at all.

(14:57) So I I write about this In my book, there's really four emotions that a homeowner in foreclosure is dealing with. Maybe it's not emotions, but just state of mind, I guess. There's anger, there's apathy, there's confusion, and there's denial. And it could be one of those four or combination of any one of those four, all four at the same time, right? So I try to as quickly as possible, establish, you know, what is the state of mind of this, this homeowner or this seller, and then decide, you know, what series of questions, I'm going to ask them to kind of figure out what do I have to do to help this person get them out of this really bad situation? So starting, you know, with, with apathy, a lot of times, people just flat out don't care. They just don't care what happens to them or the house. And in that case, it's fairly simple because, you know, an apathetic person has given up, right, they just don't care. And you can come in and say, Well, I know you don't care if this house goes to foreclosure or not. But how would it sound if I put some money in your pocket and gave you a little time to move out, right. And so now I usually find that apathetic homeowners or people who've already vacated the home, they've left, like, for example, I did a deal with a woman who had moved out of the home and she'd probably been out of the house for three years. This was a house in Scottsdale, and she didn't care. You know, she she walked away, she thought she didn't have any equity in the house, there was nothing she could do. But the house is in South Scottsdale, three years had gone by what equity built up in the home over that period of time. And she actually lived out of state. So and it was only about a week left before the auction. So I actually got on a plane flew to where she lived in she lived in Hebron, Indiana. So I got on a plane, I flew into Chicago, O'Hare drove down to Hebron, Indiana matter and got all the all the forms we needed to get notarized and signed. And then kind of a kitchen table closing only we weren't at a kitchen table, we were I was actually at a Holiday Inn Express, where I was staying, got all the forms I needed, flew back home that next day, close the deal. And then I wholesaled, it made about 25,000 bucks, she was apathetic, right, she just didn't really care. So that's an easier conversation to have, I'd say the most difficult state of mind of a homeowner you're dealing with is somebody who's just confused, they really don't understand what's going to happen if they do nothing. And so that's where you have to really kind of get down on their level and say, Listen, I know this is a confusing experience for you, you've probably had a lot of letters you've received in your mailbox, maybe you've had people drop by your home or call you or text you. But you know, and this is what I call the the two option close, I say, but really, you have two options, your first option is to do nothing. And if you do that, the home is going to sell at auction, some person you don't know is going to buy the house at the auction who has no relationship with you whatsoever, and they're going to throw you out. Because as soon as the house sells at the auction, you're no longer the owner, you're a squatter in the home, you're basically here illegally, bro. So within seven to 10 days, maybe sooner, you know, an officer of the court is going to show up and tell you you'll have to go and you'll have no time to pack your things up and find a new place to live. And on top of that, that auction buyer has no obligation whatsoever to give you a penny. So you're just going to be out on the street when nothing if, if we can sit here right now and come to an agreement and make a deal. I can give you some money right now, when we close, maybe a little bit more cash after you're moved out. And I can give you 3060 days to find a new place to live and to move out with dignity. But even then, Damn, that doesn't always work. I can I can't tell you how many times I've had that discussion. And I thought I had the report, they understood the consequences if they took no action whatsoever, and they still just let it go to auction. Right. It's heartbreaking, because you just know what's going to happen next. Right? It's just again, they're just they're homeless, essentially. Because yeah, they weren't giving anything, any money in Oh, and then no time to move out. So yeah, the angry ones are actually pretty easy to deal with too. Because they they're angry, they're pissed off. But it's not your fault. I mean, you're there to try to solve a problem. So you can kind of take their side, right. I know how you feel these banks. Right? You have a calm you can kind of create a common enemy. Yeah. During the conversation, right. So so yeah, yeah. So angry people can be easily the situation be escalated, say, Hey, listen, I totally understand where your anger and your frustration is coming from because I've dealt and I've worked with and I've helped homeowners just like you who've gotten the same kind of runaround for the bank, or whatever the case may be. So you try to create a common enemy. And then the last one denial, you know, I mean, those are probably the hardest because they somehow believe in some weird way that the whole thing is, you know, a figment of someone else's imagination. They believe that this Whole thing, you know, there was done illegally or whatever. For example, I'll give you a quick example. I had a woman I was working with. And she swore that she had paid off the mortgage. She, she's like, there's no way this, I could be getting foreclosed on, I paid off the loan, I don't owe the bank any money. So, you know, when I'm trying to work with somebody like this, and they are interested in selling? Yeah, I'll kind of start the process, I'll start getting some title work done just to make sure I know what's going on with all the, you know, the with, you know, just to make sure that they can convey title to me. So she sends me like, she takes a picture of it, she sends it to me, it's like a payment coupon. And it shows like paid $2,000, right. And I'm like, I don't know what this is. But your mortgage, the foreclosing lender you owe like $127,000 to run it. This is $2,000. What in your mind makes you think that this loan was paid off? And she's like, No, no, I paid it off. We'll come to find out. That was like a final payment she made to like a second mortgage holder, because she had a very small second, but she still had the first I'm like we yeah, this paid off your second mortgage. Right? You owe $1,000 on but you didn't have the first, you know, so. But she just in her mind. She was convinced this whole thing was she was being wrong. Right? Yeah, there's no way so yeah, it's hard to help somebody like that. When they're in denial. You're just like, no matter what you tell them, you know, whatever, whatever chronology or you no facts, you give them a break. They just don't want to believe it's happening. So

(21:34) yeah, in many ways, right. It's less painful to think you are being wronged than it is to think I have screwed up in some way. Right? Yeah, yeah. And being the type of person as I am, I know this for a fact, who does not open my mail. Like I have a pile of stuff from like, actually, because I have an employee in Arizona state. And they sent me like a letter a week for something and I opened the first two and then I kind of stopped opening them. And every day I look at the pile like this is a terrible idea. Why am I doing this sort of like I don't know, I just don't want to open my mail right now. Right? Like it just I think you can you can get trapped in that. And then have it snowball and it's very understandable to be. Hey guys, hope you enjoyed part one of this episode is just too good to limit to one show. Join us next week to hear the rest

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