Episode #224 – From Dealing Blackjack to Success With Novations with Corey Geary, Part 2

You're listening to the REI marketing nerds podcast, the leading resource for real estate investors who want to dominate their market online. Dan Barrett is the founder of AdWords nerds, a high tech digital agency focusing exclusively on helping real estate investors like you get more leads and deals online, outsmart your competition and live a freer, more awesome life. And now, your host, Dan Barrett.

(0:40) Hey guys, welcome back. You're listening to the second part of last week's episode. Let's jump back in. So let's let's take a step back. First of all, I mean, the story is awesome. And I completely second your your thing about masterminds. I mentioned this a couple times, the only way I've ever been successful is by copy and pasting other people who are smarter than swapping notes and learning from other people's experience, right? So hey, somebody who's better you at that skill set like for you and resemble it would be PPC, you understand PPC, very well, the ins and outs of it.

Like I wish I would have just paid you in the beginning instead of like spending 50, grand 80 grand 100 grand whatever it was I spent before I go, Oh, maybe I should pay someone to teach me this. Yeah. Well, it literally is like, you know, I pay I'm in multiple sort of groups, industry groups masterminds, right for for real estate investors for agency, but basically, for anything that even remotely applies to what I do, right. And even the ability to just ask a question of someone who is also going through what you're going through, I feel like is a relatively life saving thing to have, as of right, so it's a lonely, it's a lonely job a lot of times, alright, so But beyond that, okay, so we've kind of hit on this early, I have a million questions.

But right, here's my first right. So let's really define our terms. So Novation, you kind of said it's, it's like, essentially, is it we're locking up the deal more or less like we would any other wholesale deal. But on the back end, it's different, because rather than going to, you know, as a wholesaler, for example, to someone who wants to flip the home, I'm listing it on the MLS and just selling it on the open market. Is that the basic difference? Or is there more sort of nuance to it than that

(2:20) there's more nuances underneath all that all lies in the paperwork. But that is the basic 30,000 foot overview is that you're listing it on market to a buyer who's got conventional financing, even sometimes with FHA buyers, we have nobody to FHA buyers, but know that if you're going to novate to an FHA buyer, you have to the house has to pass the financing contingencies, meaning the inspection period, whatever the inspector finds in the house has to be done. If you're going to no beta to an FHA buyer. So we have done it to FHA, but I don't I have a very high risk tolerance.

I don't mind like basically flipping a house across the United States. I can do it. But just know that going into that we're gonna do this nationwide, virtually, we try to stick to conventional buyers, conventional finance buyers who are going to put 20% down, because then everything's negotiable, the inspection repairs is negotiable. You could do credits, everything is and it's nuts how we did it. Yeah, that's, that's the kind of 30,000 foot overview.

(3:20) And do you feel like it this is a thing that works best at the national level? Do people do it locally as well? More, works great. Both. Mostly the other guys teaching Novations more the older guy, I'm kind of newer, there's other people been teaching before me. They teach you on a local model. On a local model, they teach it with the old school paperwork, which I don't believe in, they teach it. That's the way they're teaching, almost like partnering with the seller. I kind of I reinvented all that. And so but it works at a local model.

Absolutely. And it works where you can if you want to partner with the seller and do a fix and flip type strategy on that house, you absolutely could do that. It's just not the way I wanted to do it. I wanted to do I wanted it to be scalable, just like my wholesaling business was, and I wanted to be able to do it nationwide. So that was never restricted by the market. And so yeah, that's

(4:13) I think that's, that's a very insightful comment, if I've talked about this in the larger kind of context of, of ads for sellers, right. But if you think about like how, like, hey, my lead generation funnel to deal funnel or whatever, that's all a big system, and it's like one of those sort of truisms of process improvement is Every system has a bottleneck, right? There's always a point that kind of limits the output of the system.

If you're in a really small market, ultimately, it's always going to be the number of sellers that you could possibly work with, if you expand to, let's say, the country or whatever, or whatever environment gets you to the point where there are more leads than you could ever possibly deal with. Then the only limit on what your system produces is your budget. Right? You can get your budget up, you get more turned it down to get less Something that's it's nice to have a volume diet.

(5:02) Why I love PPC, PPC is beautiful for that reason, it's unlimited leads if you really want it. Yeah, it's, I think to just to kind of piggyback on what you're saying, I think particularly now, and we were not to go down this rabbit hole, but I think for a variety of technological reasons, going after larger markets, particularly nation, national markets has really gotten a boost to just a whole bunch of algorithmic bidding strategies that Google has that work very well.

Now with the more data you feed it, the smarter it gets. So the bigger markets tend to also get a pretty significant cost efficiency Boost, which doesn't mean you can't do it locally. And obviously, people do that every day. But I do think that there's, you know, just like there's downsides, there's there's pretty significant upside to doing it the way that you're doing it as well. So let me ask you about targeting real quick. Lee on the sort of ideal lead for innovation. Yeah. Is it the same motivated seller that most wholesalers are going after? Is it like mister we buy ugly houses sell my house fast? Nine

(6:04) times out of 10? Yes, nine times out of 10 Yes, it's the same seller that you're going out there you just didn't realize you can innovate that deal. The seller need to sell or wants to sell it now that is contingent on three things. If the seller needs their money now and they're that motivated were like they need the money in two weeks or the house is getting forced sold in the auction even though we've, we've we've overcome that problem. And then we've delayed the auction by calling the bank but they need the money in two weeks. That's the only way that we're gonna get the deal done.

And yeah, we can't do that with innovation there has to be a cash sale. And that's gotta be a damn quick cash sale. Yeah, so that's one we need time we need time time can be a killer net second thing the time we can kind of a kind of tweak a little bit and play with the second thing and there's this is a deal killer, you have to have this and this is access. If you cannot get access to the property deal is dead, you and can you got to wholesale it you got to and you better if you're going to wholesale it, you got to get it deep, real deep, because by sight unseen is not happening in this market anymore.

I used to buy sight unseen three years ago, two years ago, I would do it here in Phoenix because I just don't have the kind of market we're in. Yeah, now this bias, I haven't seen you but to get that thing so deep, it's not funny and it won't work for Novations sight unseen, you have to have access, you have to have access to multiple access. Preferably you can get it done with one or two and I've gotten that done before too. But multiple times, you know, cuz you gotta get buyers in there with realtors you gotta get inspectors in there and you got to be appraiser in there. So access deal killer it doesn't happen so you got time access the last thing this one it's questionable. I used to say that this was a deal killer but not no more property needs to be livable, livable meaning that somebody can come in and just live in it as is the way the condition is sits in. But I've Novated some I've been that rule where I've Novated some stuff that wasn't really little.

(8:03) Right? Depends who we're talking about, right? Like of me in my 20s my early 20s Like Yeah, cuz it's a little more than one person if they're buying conventional has to be conventional now 20% down, it was literally one person to another person, maybe it is not in maybe there's somebody who is going to maybe eliminate has a he's very handy. And he's able to fix up the property for a month before he moves in. You just don't know the situation of the buyer. So don't don't underestimate the property. I've learned that I used to be like up it's not livable, don't put up in MLS, we're not gonna know about it. We're gonna wholesale it. But now we're just Novated everything. What about the what about the pitch to the seller?

So the seller lead easy? Yeah. So how does that differ from like a traditional wholesale, the same way you're gonna pitch creative financing, you always lead with cash, and you'll lead deep with cash where you're almost insulting them and you're offending them. And then when they say no to you, you want them to say no to you, which is kind of weird. You want them to say no to you, and then you come in with what's called the concierge service offer. You're gonna come save the day. Now with your concierge service.

Alberto says Novation offer to loot them in to that in even if they agree to your cash offer, what you do is after you send the paperwork, you send the Novation paperwork, you add an additional five grand or depending on the price point of the property, say that property, you locked it up for 100 Somebody sent the paperwork out 105 grand, and you go, Hey, we have this new concierge service program and you're fully transparent with them what you're doing, where you're going to sell to a third party buyer, you need access to the property, and you're just fully transparent.

And you say no, we do this, we can get you an additional $5,000 more are you interested in doing this program instead of doing less it's fine for cash, but nine times out of 10 they're gonna take it they're gonna take the bait and they take the the extra cash in then you know, bait it and that's how a lot of times we got our problem. He's locked up to just by offering a little bit more money, even when they agreed to the cash offer. But now you just, you know, you got to offer so low on cash, you know, to make it work. Yeah, sometimes you're offending them, and then you're just coming in with the concierge service offer. And that's what they end up taking to be fully transparent how the process works.

(10:18) So it's almost like the, and we, I mean, we both know, if people are listening to this, right, you get that the market has really shifted, there's a period of true insanity for any house I went on the market would sell for like twice what it was worth, or whatever. I mean, it was just really I know, I got the flip through that. A lot of people, a lot of people had a lot of fun. Now it now it seems like we're in this sort of transitional period where the housing market is not that way anymore, but it does kind of feel like some people still expect it to be that way. Right? They think they're like, well, now I'm ready to sell, I should get X amount, because what my friends sold six months ago for XML, right?

Well, your sellers aren't in tune with the economy the way you are, you're a business owner, you're an investor, you're in tune with what's going on around you. in macro economics. Your typical seller is not your guy who works nine to five, who just lost his car because he can't pay his car, no, or whatever. Maybe he just got laid off. He's not in tune with the economy. What's going on? He just knows his neighbor sold for 256 months ago. Yeah, that's all he knows. He doesn't know. He doesn't know what the what's going on in the real estate market? Not really, I mean, maybe you're lucky. Maybe he's watching his home price on Zillow go down over the last six months, maybe right? We're still but

(11:42) I mean, you if you're a motivated seller, right, a lot of times you're not even you don't even know you're gonna be selling six months from now. Right? It's a lot of times it's ugly, or whatever. So that initial offer that sort of deep cut cash offer, it kind of it serves to create the contrast with the Novation offer makes, because you juxtapose the two side by side it makes the Novation offer look that much better. Yes, it's way more attractive. Exactly. And they understand why we can pay a little bit more with you know, need some additional time in needing the access to the property. So like it's a given get, right, they're gonna give a little bit but they're gonna get this forgiving. Now, they're gonna give me a little bit of low, you're gonna give me a little bit of my terms, and I'm gonna give them and return a little bit of more money.

(12:29) So you're an investor, you've got a business you're doing flips, you're doing wholesaling, you're doing innovations, right? So you have this like really broad swath of things that you do. If you're talking to another real estate investor, and you're trying to convince them that they should think about adding Novations into their sort of exit strategy portfolio or whatever. What are the biggest advantages to you as the business owner to do Novations in the first place? Like why take on the extra whatever it's got is the time to learn it or I gotta buy process or whatever.

Why should I go through that and monetize more deals is the main reason why right to make money on more of your leads that you're already paying for out of your PPC marketing, or maybe SEO, you got nurturing for the last year, so you have time invested, but you're monetizing more leads, you're getting more deals done. And especially when you're in a market that is uncertain where right now people are thinking all the real estate markets, I think we're done with the carnage. I don't think so I think we got more carnage to come in with Novations you can kind of like coaster that carnage because there's always going to be retail buyers, no matter what you have retail buyers, even in the 19 880s when the interest rates were at 19%, you still had some retail out there buying houses. And so it's gonna be the same way again, where your cash buyers could dry up even more than they are now. I mean, right and we have already seen the hedge fund stop by and we see the bigger operations that are you know, fix and flip operations kind of dry up.

I haven't fixed and flipped since the beginning of 2022. I closed my last house I think was March of 22. So we're a year in from my last fixin flip. And so I'm not going to be buying anytime soon. And there's a lot of people like me, who will be waiting on the sidelines before they pick up their next fix and flip. So you need other exit strategies and it doesn't have to be it should be Novation. But it doesn't need to only be Novations it needs to be Novations sub two seller finance lease options. You need to have all the little tricks in your tool belt to pull out to see which one fits the sellers best situation.

And that's the idea where I specialize in Novations when you get other people who specialize in seller financing like my good buddy Brennan Simmons specializes in seller financing and lease options. Little guy who does lease options John Jackson has just been us names. Like that's their niche. That's what they specialize in. And so as a good investor going through uncertain times, don't be a one trick pony be this the time where you kind of do have to be a jack of all trades a little bit and be like, Okay, which one is the right fit for the seller? Because your cash offer business, I wouldn't realize it might be doing okay still, but I would not rely just on that it's good to have other tricks or tools in the tool belt, if you will.

(15:23) Want to find motivated seller leads online but don't know where to start. Download our FREE motivated seller keyword report today, AdWords nerds have spent over $5 million this year researching the most profitable keywords for finding motivated seller leads. And you can grab these exact keywords when you download our report at www dot AdWords nerds.com/keywords. And I think that that feeds back very directly into the PPC strategy and really any marketing strategy. I'll talk about ads, because that's what I do. But it could be anything, right?

Because, yeah, definitely when you are competing for leads online, you're competing for other people that are trying to pay to get those leads. And if you can pay on average, let's say 10 to 20% more than your competitors, because you closed 10 to 20% more or I made 10 to 20% more on over time, you will eat that market. Like that is what will happen you will eat that market because you will close more and more money in the bank. Right. I mean, it's it's it's a virtuous cycle. I think the other thing too, and you kind of hinted at this, but I think right now you're talking to investors every day, one of the biggest challenges that they face is not necessarily even getting deals, it's disposing of them.

Right. It's dispositions, it's selling the deal to someone else that is the bottleneck for a lot of folks. And so just having a way of saying, Hey, I'm not reliant on just going in my buyers list every single time and this strikes me is an incredibly powerful addition to the kind of traditional investing business. I mean, it just seems to amaze. Yeah, yeah. It did wonders for us in 2022. That's for sure.

(17:13) I mean, I know. All right, so I could talk about we're coming up on time. I don't want to keep you super late. You're good, man. You're good, too. I can wait. I can push a few minutes off. No problem. So what let's get we'll start wrapping it up. What is next for you? Because obviously, you got this thing you've been doing? is like, amazing. Ready for the store to take another hard left turn? Yeah, well, yeah, it's like is that so here's the thing. You ready for it? So dolphin train. So like what is? So tell? Well, actually, here's the good. Here's the good transition. I'll be a good host. Here's the good transition. Tell me a little bit about Novation nation. So you talked about you're a devotee. Yeah, I started like sort of your contract and everything.

(17:55) So we have the Novation nation course. And it's just how it sounds. It's just a course it has all the paperwork that you need that I paid my attorney to draft up that I've used in almost every single state across the United States works like a charm. Now, obviously, I'm not attorney. So I'm always gonna tell you have your attorney review that paperwork, but it worked great for me, right. And it still works great. Like I have no problem isn't that paperwork. So I would also be very larious. Guys, if you're thinking about learning Novations is be careful, don't, don't buy into people who are using power of attorneys don't buy in the people who are telling you to collect the sellers proceeds, this is a very dangerous area where you're collecting the sellers money, how's it going to stand up in a court of law, and then you sign the final deed.

Man, if you ever get sued for real estate fraud that is going to be it's going to look ugly. So be careful who you learn this model from it can be tricky, not saying that I'm perfect by any stretch of the measures I am not but I've paid a lot of money to attorneys who are a lot better at this stuff than I am and the in there could even hold that he hasn't there but we've done a crap ton of deals with his paperwork. So that's so we have an amazing nation. It's got the paperwork, it's got a bunch of videos nice planning how we do these deals, you know how we talk to the seller, we got the scripts in there and how we how we pitch it to the seller.

I have recorded calls from my acquisition guys in there talking to the sellers and out you know how we listed how we find the realtors in these local markets when to list our Novation deals how you know some common problems and pitfalls that you're going to fall into because you will run into doing these deals in and so that's what it is some very simple course it's it's good and then we have a mastermind that's focused around innovation nation to but that's the innovation nation stuff so yeah, so

(19:41) yeah, I think here's the here's the thing I mean for folks that are listening to this and like this has been some innovation has been something I've mentioned this before it's like I really wanted to learn about and you came very highly recommended as like the person to learn about this from but here's the thing I didn't know before that I know now, which is Bori Gary is someone who moves Who's fast and breaks things like you said he gets his head cracked open, figuring out how to do stuff and you as the person who's listening to this you get to just benefit from that you don't have to go and do that yourself you can go and look we know right You said you have a high risk tolerance but even use it like hey these other ways to do this these are very risky.

So like, listen, just take the advice from the man he gets it he did it himself. You get to learn from those mistakes learn those lessons may have been an amazing way to learn learn something and use the right paperwork, the paperwork is the is 99% of the whole strategy like getting that right and understanding that paperwork you want to understand it to you just wanted to have someone give it to you want to know what each instrument does, and how it protects you and how it protects the seller or the buyer and what yeah, that's that's what it's good for. So

(20:51) alright, so if people want to go check this out, again, highly recommended you can go to no vacation nation, and oh V A T I O N so novation.com and check out everything there. So Cory Geary so for people who want to learn more about you, I think you mentioned and people can find you on Facebook. I need your social media. Where's the good place for people to look you up? So yeah, the best place is social media. Corey Geary on Facebook. The Corey Geary on Instagram are the two best bots and I'm also on YouTube. I have a podcast Monday through Friday, but that is on the new thing I am doing now. What's the podcast called? It is called crypto millionaires with Corey Geary. Oh, we didn't even calculate it all I wrote it down. We didn't even get to crypto. We can't minutes. We got 15 minutes. We got it. Okay, so we have an overview.

(21:47) But hard right. Sorry. We're coming back into the vet. All right. Well, yeah. 10 minutes. I want to cover this. Okay. So I've had crypto people on the show before, I think I'll typically introduce myself and say like, I'm very interested in crypto as a technology I don't personally do like, you know, I dollar cost average and do a theory and for like a year or whatever, right? Like heavily invested in crypto, but I should be doing now. Well, yeah. So I wanted to ask you, man, this has been, it has been was absolutely insane. To watch what happened to crypto over the last? Because like I first learned about crypto let's say like six years ago or something. Right? And like the what has happened over the last like two or three years has been absolutely nuts. So I would love your take on what is the state of that biggest huge question you can take away what has

(22:36) happened over the last year and a half. It happens every single market cycle during the bear market. Yeah, every single time you have a collapse, a complete collapse and where everything just melts down. And that's what we saw in 2022. With the FTX and with everything else would block fi and when I saw what is it called Luna, Luna us t token that collapse all that was part of the bear market and as markets have a way of flushing out bad actors and people with their pants down right people wouldn't when the water when the waves go out in the yard, it goes out who has our pants down the markets have a way of flushing those guys out. And that's what we've seen the last like year and a half the last Bitcoin top was November of 2021. In something you want to learn to do. If you want to get into crypto, you need to learn and study the market cycles. It's all about market cycles. Crypto works on four year market cycles. It revolves completely around the Bitcoin, halving the Bitcoin halving happens you have a year to year and a half of bull market.

After you have a blow off top you have a year to year and a half of bear market. And after you hit some kind of bottom, which we're at right now we're at some kind of bottom we might have one more leg down, might we hit 15,000 and BTC we might go down to 9k That's my my opinion but I could be wrong we could have already bottomed but it will go year to year and a half the next Bitcoin halving is a march of 2024 when the Bitcoin heavy happens in March 24, the bull market will return not only do you have that, but by that time, the economy will probably be turning around, you know, the interest rates will probably be living there'll be letting off the gas with that you have the presidential elections in 2024 There's a lot of things lining up to show a supercycle coming 24 And I'll give you a little bit of synopsis of my crypto journey. I got into crypto and 21 I bought the market top like everyone else has all everyone gets into crypto.

We're exit liquidity I once again jumped into something not understanding how it works and I got wrecked I lost over six figures in the beginning of my crypto journey. Wow. Yeah, I was excellent. This is your story man that I find this over and over are a no no, no. Yeah, I can't just learn my lesson and well, no, you sit there. Here's the thing. You do it in the most painful way. But you really learn I learned like, this is the thing you don't like book learn it you like learn it, learn it. And again again, most people when they lost money in crypto, they're like yeah, that's it. They're gone like Ramzi

(25:20) Yeah, we have a podcast. It's like we have a podcast. Yeah, I'm also it gets deeper in that. Yeah. 2022 While I was doing real estate during the daytime, I was staying up to two and three in the morning learning the spaced crypto. I was a I was joining masterminds, I hired a private mentor. I started going to events. I started treating crypto the same way I treated real estate. Yeah, well, in 2022, I built up such a freaking massive portfolio that I basically don't have to do anything ever again if I want. Holy layman, I have wound down the majority of my acquisitions in my real estate business. Because what my crypto portfolio does now I spit off massive passive income and my portfolio we buy projects that are like companies on the blockchain, they spit out dividends, if you will, stock dividends, same kind of thing was crypto dividends where it's indeed by those decentralized finance so there's no CEO that runs a company there's no stanbic been freed, like FTX Yeah, and the community owns it. And so that's how a lot of the passive income comes from was from projects like that.

And right now man is the perfect time to dollar cost averaging because you're over over the course of 2023 this is the sideways action that we always look at this is when smart money's getting in Blackrock started buying one month ago, black walk looks in black rockets in real estate, yeah, is in crypto now. And they start a buy in a month ago. What does that tell you? The smart money is getting in now and see what $1 cost average in now.

And then hold in they can tell us your audience. Maybe you just go to coin market cap now this is not what we do. But you could do this to make it easy and you bought the five top cryptocurrencies on coin market cap. Bitcoin Aetherium. It could even be Dogecoin it could be su this the top ones right ADA. You buy the top ones right now over the course of $2,023 cost averaging never just go all in you want to dollar cost average because we can time bottoms, we can time tops. So you dollar cost averaging you hold, sell in 2025, you'll make millions of dollars.

(27:38) All right, man, I'm okay. I just wrote it down. I wrote it out. It's on my list of things to do. To start this back up again, we did create a group that teaches real estate entrepreneurs how to do crypto the right way to do crypto a safe way. Yeah, um, so besides the podcast, we have a group too. And if your viewers are interested in the group, they can schedule a call with me or my partner, Dane. And then we can get on and talk about the group and see it because I want to put a link to it so everybody can get the links all this stuff in the show notes, Paul, that you gotta go to the name of the group is called defi. Crypto Alliance. I own the URL. Well, it will be linked up here in the next few days. Oh defi crypto Alliance, if they don't if they want to, like I said, they reach out to me during social media as to any of the social medias. You can reach out to me and inquire about it and point them in the right direction.

But yeah, that would be the URL that we have right now. All right, so the the listen the view that we've talked about so much stuff here, I know. He's going on, eat look up, Cory Geary some Garius spelled G E A R Y. The quarry Gary on Instagram, Cory Geary on Facebook. We already talked about innovation nation.com Isn't the spell man, you got so much stuff going on. Dude, thank you so much for sharing your story, man, I find it really, really amazing. You've got such a fascinating take. And I gotta admit, man, like, I know you said like earlier like, yeah, you know, I was doing this like, sort of the wrong way. And I get, but I really admire your commitment to just acting on stuff like as an over thinker, right, as an over thinker, that there's a lot to be said about that approach. So I just want to say, oh, man, I just I appreciate you sharing your point of view. Thank you for coming on the show, man. This was this was awesome.

(29:30) I really appreciate appreciate it. Dan, thank you so much, truly blessed and honored to be here. That is it. That's it for our interview this week. I hope you enjoyed it. As always. I enjoyed making it look if you could give us a review. Wherever you get your podcasts I would really appreciate it. I read every single one helps other people find the show. And look I won't I won't lie to you. Okay, it's just going to make me feel good. So just look, just make me just dubious. Wait for your review. wherever you get this podcast, I really appreciate it. I appreciate you have an awesome week everybody and I will see you next week

This is thepodcastfactory.com